tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4726364731790997789.post7951472442521874432..comments2023-05-30T05:13:43.153-04:00Comments on Emerging From Babel: James Kugel's provocative thoughts on the Torah; and the Jewish blogospherestchttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04018824090441668781noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4726364731790997789.post-84859253942010076642007-11-12T16:03:00.000-05:002007-11-12T16:03:00.000-05:00If the tradition is meaningful, it's worth observi...<I>If the tradition is meaningful, it's worth observing even if the historicity of the biblical accounts is doubtful.</I><BR/><BR/>The problem for Orthodox Jews is that they are often faced with a horrible choice of either keeping silent about what they actually believe or being shunned by their communities and quite possible their families if they are honest.Jewish Atheisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04616617537150446818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4726364731790997789.post-4769723797328819292007-11-11T17:20:00.000-05:002007-11-11T17:20:00.000-05:00JA:Thanks for pointing out that the oral tradition...JA:<BR/>Thanks for pointing out that the oral tradition also ostensibly traces back to Moses. And thanks for calling my attention to Kugel's answer to a provocative question.<BR/><BR/>Christians have similar debates, of course. I am pretty far out on the liberal end of the spectrum; as a result, I'm most comfortable interacting with the scholarly literature, where one is permitted to ask the hard questions.<BR/><BR/>Like you, I appreciate Kugel's honesty. His answer boils down to his personal appreciation of the "table" that has been "prepared" for him by others. In my view, that's exactly the right attitude to have. If the tradition is meaningful, it's worth observing even if the historicity of the biblical accounts is doubtful.<BR/><BR/>One might argue that the proof of the pudding is in the eating: i.e., the only validation we can possibly provide for the tradition is that we find it meaningful in our personal experience. But the implication of that is, we ought not to condemn others who do not find it meaningful, or who reject certain elements of the tradition.stchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04018824090441668781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4726364731790997789.post-57543278887200334972007-11-11T16:41:00.000-05:002007-11-11T16:41:00.000-05:00The divinely-given text leads inevitably to the hu...<I>The divinely-given text leads inevitably to the human interpreter; and the human interpreter is not only fallible but inescapably trapped in a subjective perspective, conditioned by his or her location at a specific point in space and time.</I><BR/><BR/>Orthodox Judaism believes that the Oral Law -- the "human interpretations" -- were in fact given to Moses at Sinai and then passed down through the generations, but allowed to evolve in a way that the Written Law could not.<BR/><BR/>What Kugel is kind of talking around is that the notion that the five books weren't even given at Sinai completely demolishes the traditional Orthodox understanding of why the Oral Law is binding. His stance is interesting, but I don't think it can hold up. If the Rabbis over the years were merely adding stuff (and not relating stuff that was given to Moses but not written down) it puts an entirely different spin on Rabbinic law.<BR/><BR/>And, as you correctly point out, the Law is essentially the whole of Orthodox Judaism.Jewish Atheisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04616617537150446818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4726364731790997789.post-38923975866821342132007-11-10T12:19:00.000-05:002007-11-10T12:19:00.000-05:00I guess that's why Christians ask if someone is a ...I guess that's why Christians ask if someone is a 'believer', whereas Jews ask if someone is 'practising'. <BR/><BR/>It's uncanny how you decide to post on Kugel, just as I am about to!Phil Sumpterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16491514886782881340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4726364731790997789.post-14957427445331479492007-11-09T13:05:00.000-05:002007-11-09T13:05:00.000-05:00Thanks for this summary and your responses. As I w...Thanks for this summary and your responses. As I walk through my own Christian-based traditions, I have ceased using the term faith as a cerebral notion and have moved to the term engagement - and in all love, from the foolishness of Psalm 38 to the reality of its wounds, the engagement with the One is everything - so I keep praising as the Psalmists invite and instruct. This much too impresses me with Jewish worship - so heavily into the Psalms as well as Torah and Haftorah. - Anyway - thanks and thanks for your post.Bob MacDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11335631079939764763noreply@blogger.com